But if one of the parties to the wedding was a legal minor then the parents or guardians had authority to give consent for the legal minor. Theres a hitch, though. After Sansa is taken from King's Landing by Petyr Baelish, the storyline that she has in A Song of Ice And Fire is drastically altered for Game of Thrones. The writers could easily reveal that Tyrion and Sansas marriage is still valid, or they could land on the fact that Sansa is a single woman after Ramsays death. I do remember that Emperor Manual I Komnenos (reigned 1143-1180) arranged most of the marriages between members of the extensive Komnenos dynasty and members of Byzantine noble families and foreign royalty and nobility, for example. as both parties are of age, not too closely related to each other and Consider Danaerys' young age (in the books) at which she marries Khal Drogo; and no one protesting to this based on her age. Sansa quickly escapes Kings Landing with the help of Littlefinger, and Tyrion eventually makes his way to Meereen to sync up with Dany following his victorious escape from prison. Sansa has picked up a lot from her friend and confident Margaery Tyrell, and Cersei Lannister, for that matter. And unless the parents of a person were the monarchs other persons might have the right or power to override the parental authority with superior feudal or other authority. BAELISH: Then I have delivered everything I've promised. BAELISH: Then I have delivered everything I've promised. Now, Sansa has the potential to finally come into her own. He wanted to, he almost did. But when they were both naked, Tyrion just couldn't bring himself to consummate the marriage because she was very youn The mother would only have the right to decide if the father was dead. Thus the bride was 5 years, 1 month, and 5 days old and the groom was 4 years, 4 months, and 29 days old. Tywin offers Tyrion the opportunity to marry Sansa, and if Tyrion decided not to then Sansa would have likely been married to Kevan's son, Lancel Lannister. That's how the eldest Stark sister could legally marry Ramsay. Though an official religious marriage ceremony performed by a priest as was usual for nobility and royalty would usually have a point where the two parties said they consented to the marriage. And if the parents or guardians asked the bride or groom they were not bound by his or her desires. They were never fully married, even though Littlefinger told Roose Bolton that Sansa and Tyrions union was invalid because it was never consummated. Theyll execute that dwarf for murdering the king and youll be free to marry Robin [her cousin].. For Aimee Carreros character Patti in the Ama, For Sheryl Lee Ralph, playing educator Barbara Howard on the hit series Abbott Elementary came pretty naturally. Of course, the feminist in me hates to think that Sansa's whole future depends upon a marriage vow, but Westeros is not the real world. Except Baelish and the Boltons, I mean? Reg-Jean Page Reveals Why He *Really* Left 'Bridgerton', Eugene Levy Hints At A Schitts Creek Revival, Pedro Pascals Cameo In 'Buffy The Vampire Slayer' Is The Ultimate Throwback, Leonie Elliott Shared A Moving Message For Fans After Quitting 'Call The Midwife', Get Even More From Bustle Sign Up For The Newsletter. My code is GPL licensed, can I issue a license to have my code be distributed in a specific MIT licensed project? At the altar, he removed the step stool set so that Tyrion could more easily cloak his bride and laughed throughout the uncomfortable ceremony. Obviously, the people who were forcing her to marry. However, he's also been given one of the Frey girls to marry. Still, Game of Thrones showcases such a variety of ways that women can show strength. So with those reasons stated, how can Sansa be forced to marry and have it stand as an official marriage? Actually even in our world, which I assume is what inspired it. Surly Straggler vs. other types of steel frames. Defying an order of the crown is treason and punishable by death. ), Recovering from a blunder I made while emailing a professor. So Sansa' marriage to Ramsay in the show was illegal and Despite the Lady of Winterfell bringing next level sass to the proceedings, it's an amicable reunion and not exactly what you might expect from an estranged married couple. I'm not sure that this is a dupe - this is asking about a specific (answerable) part of the story, where the other is asking about a different element that is related. her virtue. Sign up for our Celebrity & Entertainment newsletter. This is confirmed by Petyr Baelish in season 5 of Game of Thrones when he is setting up the wedding between Sansa and Ramsay. When the Lannisters hear I've wed Sansa Stark to Ramsay BAELISH: The Lannister name doesn't mean what it once did. Tyrion never consummated the marriage. Is it possible to rotate a window 90 degrees if it has the same length and width? Only a small percentage of us will know the t, I grew up in the golden age of the Disney Channel. But who's informed anybody that Tyrion didn't consummate? Here are some thoughts on the matter: We feel protective of Sansa On the show, Sansa is supposedly old enough to be wed several times over, but we can't help remember her as the wide-eyed child who thought Joffrey (Jack Gleeson) was her sweet, golden-haired prince. Tyrion is unable to consumate the marriage as it is clear that Sansa is terrified and unwilling to go through with it. As others have said before she didn`t have much of a choice. Also this. First, a quick recap. Just before Ramsay rapes Sansa, he starts to taunt her by asking why's she still a virgin, was she afraid of dwarf and so on. He took her out of King's Landing, and kissed her! The biggest issue is that when Sansa was to marry Joffrey, she had to wait for her parents consent and since her mother is still alive why does she not have to wait now? In the chapter in which Sansa marries him, Tyrion out right tells her, that the marriage is being forced on her and if she wishes to turn him down, he will find someone And if Scandinavian churchmen often ignored the canonical lower age limit for becoming a priest, it is probable that medieval churchmen often ignored the lower age limit for marriage. Let's look at the facts: Sansa and Tyrion's marriage was famously never consummated. Sansa's marriage to Ramsay was, unfortunately, non-consensually consummated, meaning that Sansa is now legally a widow. And the church did have minimum ages for being married. Thus the parents or guardians sometimes had to put a lot of pressure of various types on the engaged person to make sure he or she would give consent at that moment of the wedding. You are assuming your standards of an official marriage apply in a very different setting that doesn't have the same morals - and where most characters don't even follow those different morals either. A second ceremony could even be held to validate it. Tywin is dead. His love for her is unique. I assure you she's still a virgin. That said, Huffington Post asked some experts what they thought and Even if she didnt object when it was prompted to her, she couldve objected during the ceremony or simply Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. After Joffrey ordered Neds beheading at the end of season 1, Sansa remained betrothed to him until Loras Tyrell asked Joffrey to marry his sister Margaery in the season 2 finale; Joffrey set Sansa aside at his mothers suggestion, using the Stark familys alleged treason as justification. What video game is Charlie playing in Poker Face S01E07? Can archive.org's Wayback Machine ignore some query terms? Because Cersei promised to torture and wed her to Tyrion if she objected instead of just wedding him. So, as far as we know, there is no easy answer. Why does Mister Mxyzptlk need to have a weakness in the comics? In the A Song Of Ice And Fire books that HBO's Game of Thrones is based upon, Petyr Baelish is working on marrying Sansa (well, Alayne Stone) to another Northerner. First, a reminder of how those two ended up married in the first place. That role was not played by Sansa in the books. It's her name I need, not her virtue. Thus there are examples of high ranking medieval persons marrying when years younger than the canonical minimum ages. He kept his house in power through sheer will. Short story taking place on a toroidal planet or moon involving flying, Bulk update symbol size units from mm to map units in rule-based symbology. His father made him in order to establish a Lannister that would be accepted in Winterfell once he had a child with Sansa. There were other reasons Can archive.org's Wayback Machine ignore some query terms? That's the point I'm making, Littlefinger doesn't care that she is already married in either medium. @KyloRen Arranged marriages are not the global norm. What is a word for the arcane equivalent of a monastery? They're her parents now; they said yes, even if from the view of her real family she's being held hostage. Princess Agnes of France (1171/72-1220 or after 1240), daughter of king Louis VII, was sent to Constantinople in 1179 and married or betrothed to Emperor Alexios II (1169-1183) on 2 March 1180. The only choice she had was between Tyrion and Lancel. And while Tyrion did protect them in some extent against Joffrey mistreatments, she ha Parents or other kinfolk arranged the marriages of aristocrats, and often of commoners as well. Although Sansa was no longer tied to Joffrey as his future wife, she remained trapped under the influence of the Lannisters in Kings Landing. Can you provide references for the answer you have written? ROOSE: And you prepared for the consequences. Except Baelish and the Boltons, I mean? However, arranging the match is no easy task, as Harry is a highborn lord and he believes that Sansa is just the bastard Alayne Stone. Assuming Catelyn has always been truthful about that; this means that Sansa has grown up knowing that marrying someone and loving them are two separate things. Tho, Welcome to Whats Good, a column where we break down whats soothing, distracting, or just plain good in the streaming world with a rooting fo. Karras disagreed. Which brings us back to our question about the status of Tyrion and Sansas marriage. At the same time, in the world of ASOIAF they believe that they can check to see if her maidenhood is intact, which it would be. http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/CAPET.htm#Agnesdiedafter12406. The crown I guess would see Tyrion as still sentenced to die so perhaps effectively Sansa is at most effectively a widow in the crowns eyes. Can airtags be tracked from an iMac desktop, with no iPhone? They never smashed. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. This is a setback for Sansa The eldest Stark daughter has not just survived, but thrived. WebHowever, Tyrion does love Sansa very deeply. After six years of war, Sverre became king of Norway. Tyrion is Waymar Royce is the son of Yohn Royce, the man who becomes one of Sansa's closest advisers in the series, and Sansa falls head over heels in love with Waymar when she meets him at Winterfell, where he and his father stop on their way to the Wall. BAELISH: Queen Margaery adores Sansa. ncdu: What's going on with this second size column? None of this happens in the books at all, it actually seems likely that Sansa will never even meet Ramsay, which her fans are obviously grateful for. Why does Mister Mxyzptlk need to have a weakness in the comics? When Petyr Baelish brought Sansa to her aunt Lysa in the Vale, Lysa told her that she and her cousin Robyn would be married once Tyrion was executed for the murder of Joffrey. It truly comes down to what makes Despite being cousins, the relationship between Robin Arryn and Sansa didn't get a whole lot of development in the show. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. @TLP yet she can be engaged to marry Harry? When the Tyrells attempt to plot to marry Sansa into their family, it is Willas that they intend to marry her to, not to Loras, but their plans are foiled by the Lannisters in the books as well. At the start of both the book series A Song of Ice and Fire and the TV series Game of Thrones, most people weren't particularly charmed or intrigued by Sansa Stark. 18 hours ago, by Lindsay Kimble Did Petyr Baelish intend for Lysa to see him kiss Sansa Stark? In practical terms, the pope and again, this is in medieval Europe might have been more willing to annul a marriage that hadnt been consummated on other grounds, but the fact that it was not consummated was not grounds for annulment.. "I understand your reluctance. Cry if you must. In your place, I would likely rip my hair out. He's a loathsome little imp, no doubt of it, b Medieval standards aside, it all comes down to what Game of Thrones showrunners Dan Weiss and David Benioff decide are the laws of the Seven Kingdoms. He intended to make his widowed sister Eudocia marry the king, but she refused. My code is GPL licensed, can I issue a license to have my code be distributed in a specific MIT licensed project. They do marry, and theyre both miserable. Marrying Tyrion stopped her from marrying Wilas and being free from the Lannisters, and Tyrion is upset They were married in Thessalonika in spring, 1299 when Simonis was five and Militun was about nine times as old. From hair trends to relationship advice, our daily newsletter has everything you need to sound like a person whos on TikTok, even if you arent. Is Sansa still married to Tyrion? Why are physically impossible and logically impossible concepts considered separate in terms of probability? Per medieval law, the fact that Sansas first marriage had not been approved for annulment prior to her marriage to Ramsay would make the latter marriage invalid. was married to Anne Mowbray, Countess of Norfolk (10 December 1472-November 1781). Euler: A baby on his lap, a cat on his back thats how he wrote his immortal works (origin? The reason that Sansa could still be betrothed to Ramsay Bolton after her marriage to Tyrion Lannister is that he marriage to Tyrion was never consumated. Without him, Jaime has one hand and no allies, Tommen is a soft boy, not a king to fear. said their vows, they are married and they stay married. 23 hours ago, by Victoria Edel When Petyr Baelish brought Sansa to her aunt We find out that, before their wedding ceremony, the groom first secured permission from the High Septon to annul his marriage to Elia Martell. (LINK IN BIO), A post shared by gameofthrones (@gameofthrones) on Jul 4, 2017 at 9:06am PDT. Jeyne Poole, a childhood friend of Sansa's from Winterfell, avenge the death of her mother and brother. With Ramsay now dead, does Sansa's marital status technically "default" back to Tyrion? Shae was present in Sansas bedroom when Tyrion told Sansa the news that they were to be married. Do the Tyrells know (or suspect) where Sansa is? Inspect her, if you must. Eddard didn't defy him then just as he didn't defy him about killing Sansa's wolf. Sansa, finally able to reclaim power over the husband who tortured and assaulted her, uncaged his vicious dogs to eat him alive. Sansa would endure many more horrors after this, but her treatment by Joffrey and Cersei certainly started it all. While the Essosi and Westerosi may be different in regards to acceptable marrying age; I can't think of any case where age was an issue in Westeros. I certainly hope not. This season, it was her choice to marry Ramsay -- the son of Roose Bolton (Michael McElhatton) who betrayed her mother and brother at the Red Wedding -- in order to avenge her family. "Consummation was not necessary for a marriage," Karras said. She's not going to make the same mistakes that her brother Robb Stark did. Now that she's out of King's Landing and officially entering the Game of Thrones as a player with a purpose, I'm looking forward to seeing what Sansa's next alliance will be when the series returns to HBO on Sunday. Catelyn Stark specifically talked (I think to Sansa) about being married off to Ned, and not loving him in the beginning. Despite being forced to marry the imp of House Lannister, however, Sansa the traitor Ned Starks daughter begins to bond with him over their shared status in Kings Landing. For example Liudolf (930?-957) was made Duke of Saxony by his Father Otto the Great (912-973) in 950. Either you are willfully ignoring the answers and this question has become pointless to answer, or you do not understand the answers and therefore do not understand the underlying premise of pretty much all events in Game of Thrones. Another element of Sansa's drastically different book storyline is that she's not only in the Vale, but Littlefinger is trying to arrange a marriage between her and a character named Harry Hardyng. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. Tyrion never consummated the wedding but Sansa never requested an annulment. Littlefinger then stupidly arranges a marriage between Sansa and the cold-hearted bastard son of Roose Bolton, Ramsay (Iwan Rheon), who is currently ruling Winterfell. Sansa never trusted Tyrion and she Within the TV adaptation, Shae is one of the only people who seems to genuinely care for Sansa as a person, and they develop a pretty close relationship when Shae acts as Sansa's handmaid. Scene from S3E8 Second Sons, Game of Thrones. How does Sansa know the hounds have not been fed? Sansa says and she never does. Further south, Tyrion, played by Peter Dinklage, was on a boat heading north to Winterfell with Jon Snow and Daenerys Targaryen. Were Sansa and Arya aware of Littlefingers deceptive plan all along? That wasn't in the official King's Landing Gazette or anything Any person wanting to remarry a married woman (assuming she hasn't had kids) can claim her marriage wasn't actually consummated. Sounds like yet another plot hole missed by the script writers of the tv-show. Spoilers ahead. Peter Dinklage was great as Tyrion, but the show didnt go all the way to have him properly disfigured during the Battle of Blackwater. Sansa got m In the books, Tyrion's whole plot to hide Shae in plain sight is pretty similar to how it plays out in the series, but Shae and Sansa don't actually develop a personal relationship. 2 minutes ago, by Sarah Wasilak Over time, the two developed a relationship and Tyrion brought Shae back to Kings Landing and she took on the position as handmaiden for Sansa so the two could safely and secretly be together. Game of Thrones returns on Sunday and I'm already nervous about Sansa. "What if I never want you to?" Behold. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. Sansa's marriage to Ramsay was, unfortunately, non-consensually consummated, meaning that Sansa is now legally a widow. When Joffrey declared it is time for their bedding ceremony, Tyrion refused and threatened Joffrey at first, but then played along and brought Sansa up to their bedchamber. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. That depended a lot on whether the forced person made their objections publicly known - despite the possible dire threats of those forcing the marriage - and on how idealistic or cynical the local religious hierarchy was. If memory servers me correctly the King made a comment to the effect of "don't make me make it an order." I don't accept this quickly usually, but you hit it on the head!!! TLDR, Sansa and Tyrion are still very much married if George's rules still apply in D&D's world, scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/134678/, scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/161207/, scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/95350/, https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/95350/isnt-sansa-already-married, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup. For a while, this certainly seemed like this is what Littlefinger was after, right? How did Arya get her dagger back from Sansa? How to match a specific column position till the end of line? dead. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. In season 1, King Robert Baratheon pressured Ned Stark into a marriage arrangement between their children, Sansa and Joffrey. What can a lawyer do if the client wants him to be acquitted of everything despite serious evidence? RELATED:Game Of Thrones: 10 Moments Fans Expected To See In The Final Season (That Didn't Happen). Sansa is set to marry someone in the books, just not Ramsay. Consummation was not necessary for a marriage, Ruth Mazo Karras, Lecky Professor of History at Trinity College Dublin, told HuffPost. Baelish tells Sansa that Tyrion might have done the same to her in time, Surly Straggler vs. other types of steel frames. WebLong answer: Sansa's marriage to Ramsay was done in an attempt to replace the character of fake Arya. However, the journey from beginning to end for Sansa is pretty drastically different in the books vs. the TV show. The context is mildly important. @DrRDizzle you are not wrong. Did a septon or someone annul their marriage or has Sansa switched to worshiping the old gods somewhere along the way? A divorce doesn't exist. RELATED:Game Of Thrones: 10 Friendships That Should Have Happened (But Never Did). I know she married Ramsay but I don't even know if that was an actual binding marriage or just coercive marriage. Boltons know/were told that Sansa was a virgin. The request was a nicety. Sansa ever marrying or even coming into contact with Ramsay Bolton seems so unlikely because, as of the end of the latest released book, Sansa is still in the Eyrie with Sweetrobin Arryn and Petyr Baelish. The emotional abuse is magnified The fallout of sexual abuse cannot be underestimated, but for Ramsay to add an extra layer of perversion by having her watched by a childhood friend, pushes it to another level. This poor girl has been tortured by Joffrey Baratheon and then forcibly married to Tyrion Lannister, who was in love with another woman and even less into the match. Although Ramsay Boltons death freed Sansa of that marriage, her marriage to Tyrion was never actually annulled before or after she and Ramsay was married, so if Tyrion and Sansa meet again in season 8, the status of their marriage is a topic they will most likely have to address. A divorce doesn't exist. was to marry, Being that she is captive, being made to get married under duress But throughout the course of the story, she evolved from a nave child to a worthy queen. She is still a child even though she has "Flowered" (Tryion says this Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. I've wed Sansa Stark to Ramsay BAELISH: The Lannister name doesn't mean what it once did. In season 3, episode 8, "The Second Sons," Sansa marries Tyrion before being unceremoniously taken to marry Ramsay Bolton instead. Desperate to provide a bride, Andronikos selected his daughter Simonis or Simonida (c. 1294-after 1336) despite the shocked opposition of the Patriarch of Constantinople and many family members. Getty Trinity College Dublin, had a conflicting answer. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. By the law of the land, she's no man's wife. Cersei is Queen Mother, a title whose importance wanes with each passing day. Science Fiction & Fantasy Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for science fiction and fantasy enthusiasts. How can we prove that the supernatural or paranormal doesn't exist? when protesting the arrangement to his father), I would imagine being the same as an under-aged person in current times, Being that her Mother is still alive at this time, it would only be Divorce in the traditional sense doesn't appear to be a thing in Westeros although annulment is, as Rhaegar proves when he sets aside his wife to marry Lyanna Stark. She's not going to make the same mistakes that her Do roots of these polynomials approach the negative of the Euler-Mascheroni constant? He was in love with Sansa's mother Catelyn and couldn't stop bringing up how much Sansa resembled Cat. Eddard wasn't thrilled and neither was Catelyn about Sansa marrying into that family nor did he truly want the position of Hand to the King but his King made the request and Eddard didn't want to defy hime. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. You can help the. Alone, Tyrion reassured her that he would not consummate the marriage with her until Sansa wanted him to, to which she asked What if I never want you to? His response to that was And so my watch begins., A post shared by gameofthrones (@gameofthrones) on Feb 8, 2019 at 7:30am PST. Game of Thrones had to really push to top how upsetting the Red Wedding Has she endured so long just to experience pain at the hand of her enemies? Now if the king were to fall, any other King could choose to undo the marriage (as they could do if any subject was forced to get married and they didn't agree with the decision), but the point is that all decisions are subject to whomever can enforce them. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. For his part, Tyrion's no happier about the plan than Sansa is, but he goes through with the wedding out of a sense of duty to his family, in particular his father. When the Lannisters hear How did Renly expect Robert to set aside Cersei and take Margaery as queen instead? But before we get too far ahead of ourselves, we mustn't forget that the eldest Stark daughter is still legally married to Tyrion Lannister, though their marriage was never consummated do the old and/or new gods allow for annulment in Westeros? Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. We shouldn't have been surprised after seeing the prolonged tortures he put Theon through, but it's still more than anyone should ever have to bear. Sansa's characterization and story understandably gets a lot more attention in the books, so there are certain facets of her character that only book fans know. Those are the signals, right? This is confirmed by Petyr Baelish in season 5 of Game of Thrones when he is setting up the wedding between Sansa and Ramsay. Thats why we reached out to some history experts to get their takes on Tyrion and Sansas relationship status. Or maybe their marriage will end up playing a part in any negotiations to come. Lady's death in the second episode of the series is a heartbreaking and brutal introduction into the world of courtly life with the Lannisters for Sansa Stark. So who could Sansa betroth next? I don't want to reveal too many spoilers, but this was expanded upon in the new Winds of Winter chapter that George R. R. Martin posted online earlier this month. Because she was an asset. The Lady of Winterfell, and, by extension, the North. Thats why the Tyrells wanted her for Willas. The Reach and the Nor Or the crown just doesnt care. Why are Suriname, Belize, and Guinea-Bissau classified as "Small Island Developing States"? Why didn't Cersei kill Dany, Tyrion and the rest of the others? That they are married before the Gods, if is was forced, would the Aegon. But who says Tyrion didn't consummate? all other things that would make it a valid marriage, once they have So, are they divorced or what? Here's the Deal, The "Stranger Things" Prequel Stage Play Dives Deep Into Vecna's Origin Story, Can't Wait For "Daisy Jones & The Six"? Others do not share Tyrion's forward thinking. His daughter Mathilde was born in late 949 and became Abbess of Essen in about 965, and thus probably before her sixteen birthday. But by the end of this episode, nobody died, except for perhaps that child inside of us. "I won't share your bed," Tyrion tells her on their wedding night. And, if so, what does it mean for the final outcome in the quest for the Iron Throne? The disgraced daughter and the demon monkey, Tyrion, whos in a committed relationship with Shae (Sibel Kekilli) at this point, tells Sansa. Just as Ramsay forces Sansa to submit, the camera pulls away to only show Theon's face and his reactions, and it is a mirror of all of our suffering -- he cries, he's anguished, he cannot help someone he cares for from being hurt. Thus people could be forced to take sacred vows, so forcing people to take sacred vows of marriage isn't that much worse. Watching Game of Thrones Season 8 Episode 3, Sansa makes a reference that she and Tyrion were married, but this is a genuine question as I am unsure if I missed something. Great, Click the Allow Button Above He could help her secure her claim to Winterfell and the North.